A few weeks ago, FMF at free money finance asked his readers who should pay for a date? I meant to write about this a few weeks ago but got side-tracked. In any event, I’d like to throw my hat in the ring now, because I think I have fairly unorthodox philosophy. Of the five primary options, (the man, split the cost, couple takes turns, whoever makes the most money, whoever invites the other out), it is the last option that received the most support in the comment sections. I strongly disagree with this arrangement for a few reasons.
He (Or She) Who Asks, Pays?
On the surface, this seems perfectly reasonable: if you have eyes for somebody and want the pleasure of their company one evening, you should pay for the date, right? After all, they’re doing you a favor by going out with you, right? Wrong. A date is not a favor. You accept a date from somebody because you want to spend time with them, not because you feel sorry for them or want a free meal. If that is your motivation, please do us both a favor and just say no. It will cause a lot less trouble for both of us in the long run.
Since a date is not a favor, it weakens the case for “s/he who asks, pays” considerably. You’re on the date because you want to be, not because you feel obligated. If you’re there because you want to be, why should your date pay for you? After all, you don’t expect your date to pay for tickets to a play for you when they won’t be attending themself, do you? Of course not. You want to see the play, so you pay for it yourself.
Here’s where I’m about to be flamed: many women I’ve talked to think the “he who asks, pays” rule is fair. It gives them a sense that they are independent women, in control of their own destiny. True enough. In today’s society, women have more than enough economic opportunity to pay their own way. Women have come a long way economically and rightfully embrace their success. I am not in any way diminishing that. But it’s a double standard. It’s fine to support the “he who asks, pays” rule when you never actually ask anybody out. Guys, when’s the last time you were approached and asked out on a date by a woman? It happens, but it’s very rare. I think this policy is nothing more than a way to achieve equality on paper without a need to actually step up and pay. It’s a free ride. There is still an overwhelming expectation in our society that the man will do the courting, that the man do the asking, pursuing, and paying. Well, I’m putting my foot down. It’s 2008 and I no longer feel the need to support any woman. Furthermore, women don’t need my support anyway. Women are more than capable of taking care of themselves, and should jump at every opportunity to do so.
Historical And Societal Justification For Men Treating Women
Historically, the “man pays” rule makes perfect sense. Unfortunately, until recently women did not have a lot of economic opportunity in western society. Sure, women could be secretaries, teachers, or flight attendants but corporate board rooms, court rooms, and other high-paying career-paths were virtually unattainable because of the glass ceiling. In an environment where women are unfairly prevented from reaching their full economic potential by an unfair system, it makes sense for men to “pay it forward” so to speak and treat a woman to a few nice meals in a (completely inadequate, of course) bid to make up for such blatant discrimination. We’ve come a long way since then. Of course, we still have a long way to go before achieving complete economic equality between the sexes, but I think we can all be pretty proud of how far we’ve come in a relatively short period of time. Basically what I’m saying is, the original justification for the “man pays” rule is no longer valid and so the tradition should stop.
My Dating Policy
On a first date, I will offer to pay as a matter of courtesy. I AM from the south, after all. Hopefully, my date will offer to pay her share. If she does, I will likely say no, but offer to let her get desert or drinks if she wants. All is well. If my date does not offer to pay, I will smile, pay the bill, and then never call her again. If you don’t like my policy, please do not go on a date with me. Thanks.
Flame away.
5 responses so far ↓
1 Little Miss Moneybags // Apr 30, 2008 at 7:31 am
Interesting philosophy. I’d like to present it from the woman’s standpoint.
From what I’ve discussed with my girlfriends, we notice that a lot of guys seem to be offended if women offer to pay (even half) on the first date, especially if they were expressly invited by the man. It also seems that a lot of women offer this because they realize they are only interested in being friends, and don’t want to be in the position of “owing” anything for a free dinner. Or that perhaps men interpret a woman offering to pay on the first date as indicating she’s only interested in being friends.
Me, personally–I tend to date people in roughly the same socioeconomic situation as I am in, so it’s not fair for one person to pick up the tab all the time. I just went on a first date last week, and did not offer to pay. I thanked my date, and planned to pay on our second date a few days later. I attempted that, but he didn’t let me. He holds to the “whoever asks, pays” rule, so I said fine, and right then we made plans for a third dinner, which I’ll be paying for. I think from here on out, if we keep seeing each other, we’ll split things more evenly–either trade off paying, or split the bill.
I say that only to encourage you not to write off women who don’t offer to pay on the first date. They might really like you and not want to give off friendship-only vibes by trying to split the bill right down the middle. Unless you announce your policy up front, you might be missing out on some girl who is trying to show her interest by letting you “be the man” and take her out.
On the other hand, if she chose the most expensive item on the menu, had three drinks and dessert, and didn’t offer to pay…well, yeah. Lost her number quickly.
2 Maria // Apr 30, 2008 at 1:40 pm
Miss Moneybags makes a good point. What if your date is used to guys who are offended by an offer to pay on the first date?
I let my boyfriend (now husband) pay on our first couple dates but once we were friends we took turns, whoever had money paid (we were both in college and broke anyway). He was old-fashioned about the guy paying when we first went out so I let him out of respect.
PS I think you’d get more comments on your posts if you adopted the do-follow policy. I know I would. I make a point of commenting regularly on do-follow blogs.
3 Kyle // Apr 30, 2008 at 2:06 pm
I think it’s likely that most guys who act offended when you offer to pay really aren’t, but act that way because they’ve had it drilled into their head by society they should pay. It’s not being offended so much as fear that others will look down on them for “not being a man”. You can avoid that problem by explicitly stating it’s not a negative reflection of his masculinity. They also probably think it’s a test. Men can get pretty paranoid that everything a woman says or does is some sort of test. It’s sad.
Maria, I understand your point about the do-follow, but on the other hand then you tend to get people commenting just for the sake of getting a link, which isn’t exactly what I’m going for. Besides, I don’t even have enough page rank for myself, much less enough to go around!
4 Four Pillars // Apr 30, 2008 at 7:47 pm
I think you should wait until the morning after to “never call again”…
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